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Author Topic:   a few questions on item mods
OnSLT
Squire

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Registered: Jan 2002

posted 29 January 2002 16:07     Click Here to See the Profile for OnSLT   Click Here to Email OnSLT        Reply w/Quote   
I'm having some difficulty figuring out a few attributes that are difficult to understand.
1. On Target Defense(reduce-ac), is that like Requirements, whereas a lower(-) number reduces things, or is a Positive Target Defense better?

2. Does Ignore Target's Defense work more properly than Target Defense?

and 3. Does it matter if you have both on 1 item, and why?

Just need to clear this up a bit, if anyone can help I am trying to figure out which attribute best suits a Melee Weapon.

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Myhrginoc
Honorary Warlord

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posted 29 January 2002 23:16     Click Here to See the Profile for Myhrginoc   Click Here to Email Myhrginoc        Reply w/Quote   
Reduce target AC works on all monsters, I believe...even bosses and champions. Ignore target defense only works on ordinary monsters.

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FoxBat
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posted 30 January 2002 06:21     Click Here to See the Profile for FoxBat   Click Here to Email FoxBat        Reply w/Quote   
The lower monster defense means that every time the monster is hit, it's defense value is lowered by that amount permanently. This is cumulative. So say I have -15 monster defense on hit, and a monster with 100 defense. First hit the monster gets 85 defense. Second hit and 60 defense. And so on, down to 1 (probably, not sure where the lower cap is) And of course, less monster defense = easier for you to hit them.

Ignore Target Defense takes a monster's defense out of the equation entirely. They might as well have 0 defense when using such a weapon, so the only reason you miss a monster is A) due to clvl vs mlvl B) no matter what it's still capped at 95% tohit.

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Watcher
WarLord

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From: Who cares anyway?
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 30 January 2002 07:39     Click Here to See the Profile for Watcher   Click Here to Email Watcher        Reply w/Quote   
reduce-ac: You enter a number between 0 and 100 and that percentage of the targets defense is used. So if you enter 25, targets defense is reduced to one fourth of the original. The display is X% Target's Defense. This working is the reason for the Eth bug, since Bliz entered -25 for that one. It looks right, -25% Target's Defense, but it doesn't work the way you'd think.

Watcher

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FoxBat
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posted 30 January 2002 08:31     Click Here to See the Profile for FoxBat   Click Here to Email FoxBat        Reply w/Quote   
Forgot about the %reduce mod as well

As for eth... are you *sure* (IE tested or a good source) that it is a % of the defense, rather than a % reduction? If I put in 25 (NOT -25) will I get 1/4th or 3/4th enemy defense?

Also, any idea about what exactly is wrong with slows target and how to fix it? Is it the same deal where it's acting as % of the total rather than a % reduction?

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OnSLT
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posted 30 January 2002 14:40     Click Here to See the Profile for OnSLT   Click Here to Email OnSLT        Reply w/Quote   
I was just wondering which %Target Defense works better - or +. Because you can enter anywhere from -127 to 127, this isn't the same as Dmg-ac where a hit damages the targets defense.
It's disturbing, because the way I see it..your Reducing the Target's Defense, I'm guessing a Negative % will make it harder for you to hit.(also maybe something you'd want to implement in a D1-like mod)

As for the slow down, I think it's nerfed bad. For some reason I can't get any slow Down to work after 30%.
Except on the Pally's Holy Freeze, that freezes a target more than a Slow Down% should act like.
Razortine, and another Unique has 50% or 75% slow down, and it doesn't work properly.
Pretty much it works around a char's speed, If you have say 100% Faster Run/Walk, then Slow Down only reduces that Number%.
In CD2 slow down was more evened out, because it's percentage didn't lower the Run/Walk %, it just slowed you down no matter how much Run/Walk % you had.

I guess having Ignore Target's Defense on an item overrides the +Target Defense, because I still find myself hitting half the time on High Defense monsters. Perhaps having Ignore Target's Defense means I need a lower Attack Rating??
It's still a little confusing because when you look at the Barb skill War Cry, it says -Defense, maybe it's related??
Well first things first...I'm going to try a Negative Target Defense, and see if that works better Overall than Ignore Target's Defense, because I already have 95% to hit for my Attack Rating.
I just don't know whether or not having both mods on an item hits at 95% all the time while still reducing the Defense% of the target. Lalala I'm outie.

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FoxBat
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posted 30 January 2002 16:32     Click Here to See the Profile for FoxBat   Click Here to Email FoxBat        Reply w/Quote   
I did a little testing. You are NOT reducing the armor by a %, you are reducing the armor TO that %. So 25% reduceAC means the monster has 1/4th of their armor. -25% means they have less than 0 of their armor 75% would mean they have 3/4ths of their armor. And the ReduceAC is not like the dmg-AC, it just reduces their AC in the calculation once per attack (not cumulative like dmg-AC)

And yes, the slow target "nerf" is because you are going in the wrong direction 25% means reduce the enemy to 1/4th of their normal speed. Use *lower* numbers to get slower monsters.

Skills do not seem to be screwed up like these item mods are. More holy freeze will slow monster more, more battle cry will make monsters easier to hit.

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OnSLT
Squire

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posted 30 January 2002 23:40     Click Here to See the Profile for OnSLT   Click Here to Email OnSLT        Reply w/Quote   
That explains alot FoxBat...If I understand correctly 75% Target Defense is 3/4's there Defense, and -75% Target Defense is 3/4's there armor in the Negative(boy wouldn't that make things easier for ya,hahaha)
It would only make sense to use -Target Defense since with my own items, I get 95% to-hit on my Attack Rating.

Are you sure about that Slow Down%?
Ok let's say 5% is the lowest possible% to use at the moment, then the monster will be slowed to a fraction of 1/20 of their Normal Speed?? Or does it faction in Run/Walk too?

I like fightin cows sometimes, you know some of them have grease lightnin(pun!).
So now, i could slow them down pretty good, I will try this 5% slow down thing out, and see the results...I wonder if 1% will work or not! LOLOL
By the way Congrats on 1000 posts =)

[This message has been edited by OnSLT (edited 30 January 2002).]

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OnSLT
Squire

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posted 31 January 2002 14:46     Click Here to See the Profile for OnSLT   Click Here to Email OnSLT        Reply w/Quote   
What I'm going to do is test 4 items on the slowdown%. 2 weapons, one with 5%, the other with 30%.
Then I'm going to see if it's more effective on things like gloves(hint:cleglaws bracers), and see which one works best with slowdown.

I'm also going to test out which Target Defense works better in my opinion, in order to do this...I will have to have a low STR, and low Dex number.
Possibly also a low attack rating, so that my hits are close or a bit above 50%....if you can't hit the target to reduce it's defense it doesn't have much use.

Ah well on to testing, I will conduct a thorough investigation on these specific item mods, and conclude whether Target Defense or Ignore Target's Defense is the best solution to hitting any target.

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OnSLT
Squire

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Registered: Jan 2002

posted 31 January 2002 17:15     Click Here to See the Profile for OnSLT   Click Here to Email OnSLT        Reply w/Quote   
OK FoxBat, here are my personal findings on the item mods I was concerned about.

For some reason, I can only get Negative Target Defense with the Eth runes, i wasn't able to get a Pinch of negative in a cube recipe. However I noticed with -100% Target Defense, my To-Hit% jumped to 95%, with LOW dex, went from 35% to 95% in hell Difficulty.

Now i was able to get a Positive, Target Defense using a Cube Recipe...To tell you the truth I didn't find any Relevance to it at all. With 100% Target Defense, my attack Rating stayed the same, and still hit monsters as if i still had 35% to-hit.

What's interesting about Ignore Target's Defense, is that my To-hit didn't jump...i was at 35% and hit like 95% hit would.

Also about that Slow Down, a *Lower* number didn't cut it for me. I tried dozens of small percentages...starting from 5% all the way to 70%.
Ya'll get your notebooks ready, because I just found out that the slow down on items does have a CAP, yes and that cap is 55%.
I tested it numerous times to make sure, and guess what i took a gander at how many Seconds it took for a Zombie to take 1 step at me as if it were running!
I counted 4-5 seconds per step, and that was the slowest I recorded, so...case closed.

Just want to clear this up also, - target Defense requires you to have a socketed item, it can only be achieved by Eth runes, which I find a major pain...and since + Target Defense% does nothing...I see no real use for this attribute--It's a waste!
I'm going to stick with Ignore Target's Defense.
Thanks for all your help though, I appreciated it.

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jbouley
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posted 31 January 2002 23:15     Click Here to See the Profile for jbouley   Click Here to Email jbouley        Reply w/Quote   Visit jbouley's Homepage!
55% cap on slow? Damn...that shoots the concept of a couple unique items of mine that I created ages ago...drats!

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- JEFF
"A hero is no braver than anyone else. He is only brave five minutes longer."
For my latest mod (for LoD/expansion), download Version 1.1 of Sanctuary in Chaos

- Or for old stuff (for classic D2), visit my orignal mod site at www.planetdiablo.com/sanctuary

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FoxBat
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posted 01 February 2002 09:43     Click Here to See the Profile for FoxBat   Click Here to Email FoxBat        Reply w/Quote   
100% target defense shouldn't do anything Since it's 100% of the monster's defense, leaving it at original. Now with 0% or 50% one would hope to see a change.

Something's wierd with slow target. Ceglaw's pinchers sure as hell make targets alot slower than the suppsed 25% reduction. Did you notice monsters going faster or slower with a different number? Is 55% slower or faster than 25%?

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OnSLT
Squire

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From:
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01 February 2002 22:51     Click Here to See the Profile for OnSLT   Click Here to Email OnSLT        Reply w/Quote   
Yes 55% is the cap, I tested it from 5%-70%.
As soon as I switched swords from 55%, to 60%, the zombie i hit came at me faster.
I had to wait for the slow down to wear off, to be certain I wasn't seeing things.
Then what i did was try 60% first, hit a zombie a few times, watched his movement, switched swords...then hit him a few more times, and watched the results...the zombie was moving slower.
That was when the zombie was running at me, they only walk when they don't see you.

I don't know what's up with Cleglaws Pinchers, like I said Slow Down was more balanced out in CD2, so it's possible Cleglaws is more effective..I also noticed slow down% stacks, just like Defense%...So you only need it on 1 item.

It's really bizzarre to see how slow down works, it's more effective on monsters in LOD...in Classic D2 it affected anything, monsters, hostiles...
For some reason Slow Down% doesn't work on Hostiled people in LOD...which is BS because Target should include anyone your char can hit.
Which i think kinda messed up Slow Down all together. I think bliz tried to make Decrepify a more useful skill now, than using Slow Down...because everyone wanted Freezes Target...which almost does the same.

I'm not even sure if Cleglaws Pinchers works the way it's supposed to now. I can test it out and try, but I don't think it was as good as the 55%.
All i can say is--is that Slow Down works best on Melee weapons only, I couldn't get it to work very well on a Bow. I don't think I've ever seen slow down on a bow(officially).

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jbouley
Forum Admin.

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From: Portland, Maine, USA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 02 February 2002 01:00     Click Here to See the Profile for jbouley   Click Here to Email jbouley        Reply w/Quote   Visit jbouley's Homepage!
Riphook unique razor bow has it.

Also, at least one exceptional unique (Kelpie Snare) has slow set at a level above 55 (it's 75 in fact)

So who knows what's going on? Maybe we never will...

------------------
- JEFF
"A hero is no braver than anyone else. He is only brave five minutes longer."
For my latest mod (for LoD/expansion), download Version 1.1 of Sanctuary in Chaos

- Or for old stuff (for classic D2), visit my orignal mod site at www.planetdiablo.com/sanctuary

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FoxBat
Moderator

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From: PA, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 02 February 2002 06:46     Click Here to See the Profile for FoxBat   Click Here to Email FoxBat        Reply w/Quote   
I'm still not sure exactly what is going on: is 5% slower or faster than 50%?

On bows there is a chance of it working or not working I believe. Just like knockback.

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