Author
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Topic: Superunique Drops partially ignore TC?
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FoxBat Moderator
   
Posts: 1618 From: PA, USA Registered: Feb 2001 |
posted 28 January 2002 18:18
I've seen some earlier posts on this Superunique wierdness but no conclusions.Anyway, I have totally redone the TCs so that some items will not drop in certain acts ever. IE you will never see a cap drop in act 2. I did this by changing the Equip lines which are used by nearly every monster line (including normal, champ, boss, supers, almost anything) I've been playing with it for days and everything seems to conform to what I have in treasureclassex.txt. EXCEPT when I kill a superunique. Then I can get stuff that shouldn't be droppable by the TC. I can get BeetleBurst to drop something "wrong" about half the time. I triple-checked his TC and where it leads and it shouldn't drop this stuff. Does anyone have any further information on this anomoly?

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Apocalypse Demon Moderator
   
Posts: 4023 From: Mississauga, Ontario Registered: Oct 2001 |
posted 28 January 2002 18:45
I've had similar experiences. For example, I made two extra superuniques and put them with Baal and changed their TC to Baal. But sometimes they drop like Baal, sometimes they drop all gold, sometimes they drop like superuniques. I'm not sure why though. It's quite annoying too.------------------ God gave me a brain to use but I miserably failed to use it to my advantage

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Kobu Lord
 
Posts: 105 From: Tokyo Registered: Dec 2001 |
posted 29 January 2002 01:52
My mod has body parts enabled. I noticed that sometimes superuniqes drop a different type than specified. Rather odd.------------------ Bleak Times are here.

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Khan Moderator
   
Posts: 373 From: Registered: Feb 2001 |
posted 29 January 2002 09:05
There was this rumor that all superuniques occasionally use Bishi-Bosh's TC. In our mod we changed all superuniques to drop from the same TC and this one includes only rings, amulets, jewels and charms (that means nothing that is over or underpowered for any monster of any level). Since this no superunique dropped anything other than that. So the Bishi-Bosh theory could be correct.------------------ www.VKmods.de Middle Earth Mods

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Deathscythe Moderator
   
Posts: 1185 From: The Darkest Part of Hell (Shadow Land) Registered: Oct 2001 |
posted 29 January 2002 09:26
hekhan i just dl and play your mod.. it rockz and can kick ass....its like lord of the ring mod... RATING: 9
------------------ quote: Beware... for your nightmare is here.....death...
Deathscythe

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Apocalypse Demon Moderator
   
Posts: 4023 From: Mississauga, Ontario Registered: Oct 2001 |
posted 29 January 2002 11:53
When you say Bishibosh's TC, are you referring to normal, nightmare or hell? Also, I believe there is a bug in normal difficulty where the majority of superuniques from Act 1-act 5 drop from the REALLY low level TCs like Act 1 Super A. Not sure why. Perhaps this explains the "bishibosh" phenomenon but this doesn't seem to be the case after normal difficulty.------------------ God gave me a brain to use but I miserably failed to use it to my advantage

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OnSLT Squire

Posts: 40 From: Registered: Jan 2002 |
posted 29 January 2002 17:44
You forget to mention about SuperUniques.txt, it too also has columns for their Treasure Class. So if you gave the Council nothing but gold drops, that's what you'd get. If you want a SuperUnique to drop something, you'll have to change the SuperUnique.txt file, so that Certain monster drops a certain TC. Like changing Flamespike's TC, for Cow, Cow(N), and Cow(H). If you have all those Cows Treasure classes set to drop Act 5 Super A, then that's what Flamespike will drop. For normal nightmare and hell Act 5 Super A.I'm not too sure if making a SuperUnique's TC, all Act 5 Super A(Hell) will work though, you can try it, and see if that works. But the Two files are connected to the overall treasureclass that you get, it's merely a Point towards this certain TC.

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gorothon Honorary Warlord
   
Posts: 1318 From: usa loudon New Hampshire Registered: Aug 2001 |
posted 29 January 2002 17:52
No matter how often U might fight a specific monster it seems that one time u really need something he will not drop it at all it seems rather weird why it happens. Like 1 time I was going against bloodraven 1 set item away from getting all of hawnins set and what does she drop? A useless piece of crap regular belt LOL that sux and I set her to drop all of Hawnins set well Thats my Input on this subject later all!!!!! 
------------------ One of many Butchers you will face in my mod becareful!! If you r just starting out don't face him alone or at all or u will be sorry!!! FLASHBACK MOD Coming soon!!!!

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Apocalypse Demon Moderator
   
Posts: 4023 From: Mississauga, Ontario Registered: Oct 2001 |
posted 29 January 2002 17:53
Well, yes of course I did that. Like I said, I wrote the name Baal in the TC column, Baal [N] in the TC [N] column and Baal [H] in the TC [H] column of superuniques.txt. It alternates between the treasureclasses in my experience. Sometimes it drops gold, sometimes it drops like Baal, sometimes it drops like a superunique.------------------ God gave me a brain to use but I miserably failed to use it to my advantage

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gorothon Honorary Warlord
   
Posts: 1318 From: usa loudon New Hampshire Registered: Aug 2001 |
posted 29 January 2002 17:59
Would be nice if it would drop what u specified in treassureclassex.....But that wouldn't be any fun lol.....------------------ One of many Butchers you will face in my mod becareful!! If you r just starting out don't face him alone or at all or u will be sorry!!! FLASHBACK MOD Coming soon!!!!

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OnSLT Squire

Posts: 40 From: Registered: Jan 2002 |
posted 29 January 2002 18:13
That might be the problem though, putting a BAAL TC on a SuperUnique's TC. Since BAAL isn't listed as a SuperUnique, maybe your only limited to Super's, Unique's and Sub-Boss TC's. As for the gold drops, either get rid of the columns with (mul) in it, or set the gold Probability to 1, and Raise all the other Probabilities. Like Equip 1(H) to something like 10, or 25 or 50(half) chance to drop that Base TC.Also note that the Item9 Column in TCex.txt, is much like the rune drops, those probabilities are High, that the next TC Base Type might be chosen...might want to lower those too!!

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Apocalypse Demon Moderator
   
Posts: 4023 From: Mississauga, Ontario Registered: Oct 2001 |
posted 29 January 2002 18:24
But can you explain why sometimes the superuniques DOES drop from the Baal TC and sometimes he doesn't? That is what I don't understand. Teknokyo told me of this before though, but didn't know why it happens except saying "it's blizzard's screwed up code. )------------------ God gave me a brain to use but I miserably failed to use it to my advantage

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OnSLT Squire

Posts: 40 From: Registered: Jan 2002 |
posted 29 January 2002 22:07
Yes I can explain it, it's not bliz' nerfed code. It just takes some extra looking at, I looked at both files SuperUnique's and TCex.txt for the answer.Ok so some superUniques drop like BAAL, well I hope you can follow me on this, it's strange, but I know it's the right answer. By looking a BAAL's TC(norm,Nightmare,and hell) we know that his picks are a positive 7, which means upon death...the picks are determined upon death Up To 7 Picks. His Chances of dropping nothing are 15%, his chance for dropping gold is 5%, the chances of him dropping the Equip A&B is 52%, junk is 5%, and the Goodies is 3%(Jewelry, gems, and runes.) None of the SuperUniques shares the same TC drop, when it comes to a Direct Calc for Equipment, like BAAL does, because obviously BAAL should be a direct method of getting items. When it comes to equipment anyway, be it weapons, armor, etc. When we look at the SuperUnique's TC(in it's respective txt file), Most of them have the Super TC, and you'll find that same Super TC below BAAL, nihilathak, etc. Here's WHY you think some drop like their supposed to, or some drop like BAAL. In the TCex.txt file, we see that Super A's, Super B's and Super C's(for each difficulty), have 2 posssible Drop methods. You will see Uitems and Cpots there. You know that Cpot's are nothing more than Rejuv, Healing, and Mana potions. Now here's where I found the answer, the Uitem you see as the first Item for a Super C(whichever), drop...gets Calculated even more. Scroll up on TCex.txt and find the Rows with Uitem, you can now see that a Uitem drop Yields 2 more drops...Equip and Junk. To put it more clearly so everyone understands me, is that Bosses have a less calculated effect when it comes to drops. Also that Super Uniques have a more calculated effect for Drops. So you can see from here here's how it works out for both of them: BAAL>Gold, Equipment, Junk, Goods Super Unique > Super A > Uitem > Equipment It took me quite a few glances, to figure it out, but it makes alot more sense, than some Bishi-Bosh superstition!!

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Apocalypse Demon Moderator
   
Posts: 4023 From: Mississauga, Ontario Registered: Oct 2001 |
posted 29 January 2002 22:12
Not true...this always happens. It continues to alternate between TCs...I have tested this on numerous occasions and it's getting irritating. And there is a bug for normal which makes 90% of all superunique kills drop from Act 1 Super A TC which is garbage...------------------ God gave me a brain to use but I miserably failed to use it to my advantage

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OnSLT Squire

Posts: 40 From: Registered: Jan 2002 |
posted 29 January 2002 22:40
Well, it looks like it's more difficult to explain than to understand.Since superuniques have a more complicated calculation for a drop, it's highly probable your going to get a low quality item. Just follow your traces, your going to have to raise all the Uitem probabilties since most Super Uniques share that TC, your going to have to raise the probabilty of the equipment item in the Uitem row. Hehe were not done yet, you'll also have to change the Equip probabilities higher as well. Not to mention Lowering the Item9 probability to 1(so it doesn't downgrade), and then finish it off by raising the Total Prob column. The problem here is, it's traced down so much, that Half, or almost all the items you want balanced to drop in a game...is now unbalanced...because it isn't as direct as BAAL's TC. BAAL's TC starts with Equipment, and not Super C. LOL, it seems that SuperUniques TC is so far out, that it's balanced alot like BAAL's. One reason is because of the drops...there's only 2 for Super's, and there's 4 for BAAL. Just try it out for my sake, trace it to the next Row, and raise the probability. Everything comes down the way it's supposed, it just takes a little longer to reach there....believe me when i say that you will have to lower the Item9 Probabilities so they don't Downgrade...that's the only reason why your getting crappy items, on Act 5 Super Uniques.. <catch my breath here> I've done it before Apocalypse...i've gotten Super Uniques to drop Elite Helms and Weapons in Act 5... it's only possible if you eliminate the chances of a Equip Row downgrading to the next Drop. This is my last post in this thread, i hope someone believes me, has tried it, got it working...i feel like i'm running in circles making someone believe.

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Apocalypse Demon Moderator
   
Posts: 4023 From: Mississauga, Ontario Registered: Oct 2001 |
posted 29 January 2002 23:32
For the act 5 superuniques dropping Act 1 Super A, I'm not necessarily referring to how to fix it because that's easy but I'm just saying that there is some sort of bug or something and is noticable on closed battlenet as well. When they do drop crap(90% of the time), it's ALWAYS two weap3 or armo3 item and all minor healing and minor mana potions. Always like that. Very rarely I get the actual normal tc to drop. However, you get into Act1 nightmare and they drop much much better quality and you don't see much of those crap drops anymore. I know how to fix it but I was just wondering why I kept getting weap3 and armo3 with act 1 Cpot potions constantly from normal superuniques.------------------ God gave me a brain to use but I miserably failed to use it to my advantage

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Kobu Lord
 
Posts: 105 From: Tokyo Registered: Dec 2001 |
posted 30 January 2002 01:13
Sorry OnSLT, I completely rewrote treasureclassex.txt and superuniques.txt and all the references in monsterstats.txt. The lines you refer to don't even exist in my mod. The superuniques sometimes drop things they aren't supposed to.------------------ Bleak Times are here.

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OnSLT Squire

Posts: 40 From: Registered: Jan 2002 |
posted 30 January 2002 02:23
Sorry Apocalypse, I thought you meant you wanted a quick answer to it. I tried explaining it, the best I could, I don't know what the phenomenon is. I see your point though normal super uniques with Act 1 Super A TC..although tracking each TC down to the nitty gritty, it seems as if all normal superunique TC's are related to crappy act 1 Equipment and crappy Cpot's.I just had to reply to this one, I wanted to let you know that, i'm re-doing the TCex.txt file to my specs, and see what's up with those normal S-U Tc's. To see what went wrong, like someone wanted normal S-U's to drop total crap. As for the lines I mentioned, all I did was take an example from the original TCex.txt file. The Item9 column i mentioned, are only found on the Equip's, Melee's, and Bow Rows. What It does is like Runes, a probability of it Downgrading to the next Lower Equip TC. It will take me a couple days to get my TCex.txt file worked out, but i'll test and see if what I did works or not on normal. If it does, i'll let you know. Bug or code, i'll get to the bottom of it...change everything around and see where the cookie crumbles.

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FoxBat Moderator
   
Posts: 1618 From: PA, USA Registered: Feb 2001 |
posted 30 January 2002 06:10
Well of course SuperUniques can drop crap, which is what I think you are trying to explain OnSLT Any act5 monster can roll back all the way back to armo3. But it's somewhat rare, whereas these superuniques are rolling back half the time. And when you stop making act5 monsters roll back to caps, the superuniques still appear to do it anyways.Notice we are talking about "true" superuniques, IE monsters that appear in superuniques.txt. This does NOT include act bosses, as you have explained they do follow the TCs well. Most of the Superuniques only get a CPot and UItem, UItem leading to an appropriate level Equip or Good. No Junk or gld anywhere. This problem "going away" in NM/Hell may not be truly going away at all... perhaps it's still sometimes going to BishBosh's NM/Hell TC, which both drop halfway decent stuff, but not nearly as good as your superunique should.

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