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Author Topic:   Item drops: help needed
FoxBat
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From: PA, USA
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posted 07 January 2002 21:11     Click Here to See the Profile for FoxBat   Click Here to Email FoxBat        Reply w/Quote   
All the test showed was that MF didn't affect act bosses as much as it does regular monsters. It didn't say that MF was useless on bosses, just not as effective as on regular monsters. Still wierd though

Is it only act bosses that have this "nerf", or do normal bosses have trouble too?

Another possibility could be related to you having set some values above 800 in the unique/rare columns for some treasureclasses, though you probably already took that into account...

If there's some glitch here I'd like to learn more about it

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NefariusDX
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posted 07 January 2002 21:15     Click Here to See the Profile for NefariusDX   Click Here to Email NefariusDX        Reply w/Quote   Visit NefariusDX's Homepage!
yup foxbat u understood what i ment, the effects on act bosses are LESS then on normal monsters in addition to the overray nerf of mf, blizzard did this since they already have a 0.8% chance to drop a unique (unless for quest drop where its a 50+% chance for set/rare/unique) if mf would effect them like on normal monsters ppl with 1000%mf (if i understood the mf forumulae from the arreat summit correctly) ppl with that amount would have a to large chance to get a unique drop of about 4.1% for unique and a even larger 11.0% for rares (note they say that 1000% mf is equal to 10% on blizzards d2 page) with the overal nerf it would be even smaller

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[This message has been edited by NefariusDX (edited 07 January 2002).]

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OnSLT
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posted 10 January 2002 15:28     Click Here to See the Profile for OnSLT   Click Here to Email OnSLT        Reply w/Quote   
I don't know much about the MF thing, but I always thought MF was what it says. Like the more MF you have the better chances you have at finding magical items only. I kept telling myself Uniques, Rare's were based upon probability and not MF.
To put it simply, I've had a char on closed, with no MF on, I mean seriously, I wasn't concerned about MF, i was more concerned about staying alive. As odd as it sounds, with 0% MF on, i actually gained more Uniques from Bosses than I did Unique monsters. I can remember those 1000's of Travincal Runs to the High Council, only to find crappy rare's, maybe a Rune, and alot of Gold.

I don't know who's right, but that's just what I know from non-mod experiences.
I also believe in the Blizzard % caps, most of the + mods aren't capped, like damage.
Alot of the %'s are capped though, I've tested them out...like a piece of armor with 1000% Faster Hit Recovery...if the cap is broken, then it gets lowered to the lowest possible %, eg: 10%.
Take Life Steal for example, there's no possible way to get 800% life steal in the game, highest on any given Ring or amulet is 9%. Any way you add it up, 255% is the maximum for Low number %'s.
MF has high value in %'s, so the cap is raised to 511%.
The only %'s that i've seen, that hasn't been capped is Resists, Absorb's, and Defense. Those are even higher, i've seen 75,000 Def armors around.

Anyways, there are caps...try putting Slow Down on gloves, like say 80%...it won't work.
75% is the Maximum i think, just like Block Rates on shields...no matter how high you try to get it...it still shows 75% as the maximum Chance to Block.

Anything that deals with Misc things that a char can do, like Fastest hit Recovery, Fastest Cast Rate, etc. all have a max value of 75%.
I don't know if others have noticed, but 75% slow down only works for melee attacks, missles i believe have a max at 30%.

Ah well, that's my theory...but I might have a quick fix for ya, finding unique's more on Bosses. Did you ever notice how in the TreasureClassEx file, that only Bosses and Sub-Bosses are the ones with numbers in the Unique, Set, Rare, and Magical Columns????

I haven't tested this yet, but it's worth a shot...edit the numbers, and leave them blank like the rest of the monsters and chests, and see if it works.(maybe)
I'd like to know.

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NefariusDX
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posted 10 January 2002 21:37     Click Here to See the Profile for NefariusDX   Click Here to Email NefariusDX        Reply w/Quote   Visit NefariusDX's Homepage!
OnSLT, if you read what me and Apoc wanted is to bury this flaming tread and not light it up again

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Apocalypse Demon
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posted 10 January 2002 22:25     Click Here to See the Profile for Apocalypse Demon   Click Here to Email Apocalypse Demon        Reply w/Quote   
"Ah well, that's my theory...but I might have a quick fix for ya, finding unique's more on Bosses. Did you ever notice how in the TreasureClassEx file, that only Bosses and Sub-Bosses are the ones with numbers in the Unique, Set, Rare, and Magical Columns????"

Yes, those values in the magic, rare, set and unique columns are multiplied by mf. The reason why other treasureclasses don't have the numbers is because every monster has a different chance to drop set or uniques I believe.

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NefariusDX
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posted 10 January 2002 23:28     Click Here to See the Profile for NefariusDX   Click Here to Email NefariusDX        Reply w/Quote   Visit NefariusDX's Homepage!
yup Apocalypse and what my oppinion was based on that these numbers are fix and set and cannot be increased decreased as i noticed like in classic d2 pre v1.07 bosses any kind of them where not effected by mf if u dont belive this well downgrade, to v1.06 or older edit unique items.txt make some unique give u 35000-100000% or 8388607% or whatever above 30k and go out into NORMAL diff bloodmoor kill a few things and IF the item type drop can be rare (which means gold and stuff is still dropped) the game calcs it like this on cd2 if item has been chosen to be unique and cant be unique then it be rare (note in cd2 sets where less quality then rares) and so on until normal, next after seeing that u ONLY get rares go to hell act4 and kill any boss and also big d a a big suprise BLUE ****, now this HAS been changed in d2x i agree with that but i dont think the base % can be altered with mf (note the THINK) since it seams only the rows that dont have a preset %chance to drop are effected i will test this thought removing the entrys on bosses and looking how mf effects them then

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Gaze into the Oblivion within yourself and you shall become your greatest fears.
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Apocalypse Demon
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From: Mississauga, Ontario
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posted 10 January 2002 23:38     Click Here to See the Profile for Apocalypse Demon   Click Here to Email Apocalypse Demon        Reply w/Quote   
"edit unique items.txt make some unique give u 35000-100000% or 8388607% or whatever above 30k and go out into NORMAL diff bloodmoor kill a few things and IF the item type drop can be rare (which means gold and stuff is still dropped) the game calcs it like this on cd2"

LOL, mf doesn't make some treasureclasses appear more than others. It isn't like more mf makes gold and arrows or whatever drop less. More mf works after an item treasureclass is chosen. So, if gold is chosen to drop, it then checks for mf after the gold is chosen, it sees that mf doesn't upgrade gold so it just drops gold. Also, you are still forgetting that giving yourself 100000% mf is only about 400% unique mf due to the diminishing returns formula.

"if item has been chosen to be unique and cant be unique then it be rare (note in cd2 sets where less quality then rares) and so on until normal, next after seeing that u ONLY get rares go to hell act4 and kill any boss and also big d a a big suprise BLUE ****,"

This is because act bosses back then had one uber drop the first time you killed them and if you killed the same boss again, no matter how much mf you had on it will always drop blue crap. But the drop system in LOD has been overhauled.

"now this HAS been changed in d2x i agree with that but i dont think the base % can be altered with mf (note the THINK) since it seams only the rows that dont have a preset %chance to drop are effected i will test this thought removing the entrys on bosses and looking how mf effects them then"

Well, Jarulf has confirmed the mf functions and who they work with, etc so go ask him...I'm telling you man, you got it wrong.

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NefariusDX
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From: The Hadal Abyss of Eternal Oblivion
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posted 10 January 2002 23:56     Click Here to See the Profile for NefariusDX   Click Here to Email NefariusDX        Reply w/Quote   Visit NefariusDX's Homepage!
Apocalypse is wasent talking about D2X i talked about CD2! v1.06 and less test it for yourself if u dont belive it at 8,300,000%.

in cd2 MF worked this was and this is a fact not a oppinion (for the fact i have been using this since v1.02) this is NOT related to d2x just test it yourself and you will see

in cd2 pre v1.07 it worked like this

1% more chance is 100% mf this was for basic magic items so 10000% is 100% 100000% would make rares generate (ONLY rares) about 1 mill would make only uniques generate (as long as the item HAS a unique form) in classic d2 v1.06 and less there WAS no treasureclassex.txt it still used monitempercent.txt and treasureclass.txt both had no way to specifiy how often uniques etc drop there also was NO overal nerf on ANY thing related to mf before v1.07 the base chance for quality is like today still set in ITEMRATIO.txt but can be even more altered in treasureclassex.txt nowadays the values in ITEMRATIO can and always will be alterable and enhanceable with %mf wile the entrys today intreasureclassex.txt appear static if u notice boss drops are ALWAYS made out of 2 major drops usually not all the drop generates rare and mostly its 1 rare or 2 or maximum 3 that generate if you remember on classic d2 pre v1.07 as i said bosses ALWAYS dropped blue stuff no matter what (again if u dont think this is right test it yourself and you will SEE it is bosses also where not effected by itemratio.txt NOW in d2x and after v1.07 they are)

back to the bosses: as i said 1-3 items seam to have a higher chance to generate rare/set/uniques and the rest almost always is blue simple explain: the bosses in cd2 only dopped rares etc as a quest drop what i think is that the none effectable part of bossdrops is that questdrop and is unalterable wile the 1-3 other items ARE EFFECTED by mf since they are not related to the internal quest flags in the save file now as you said and i agree on this part d2x has a completly changed form of mf% with caps after a specific limit for uniques/sets at 1000 which are about 330 in actuall game which again are 3.3% even these values are almost unreachable now this is halfed again by the overal nerf which means its 1.1% more chance for set/unique wile for rares it would be a MUCH higher value MF is also limited by DIFFICULTYLEVELS.txt the file has a few columns called

UberCodeOddsNormal UberCodeOddsGood UltraCodeOddsNormal UltraCodeOddsGood

these LIMIT the game in generating magic and higher quality elites/exceptionals again this should be counted in so the overal chance of actually getting a elite unique from a boss is low BUT due to the built in %chance from treasureclassex.txt this chance is no longer 0.2% but rises since thy have a base 0.8% built in so its actually 1% to drop a elite unique with 1000% mf the problem is if this elite CANNOT be a unique since it has no entry in uniqueitems.txt as a unique it will generate as set item if this cannot be a set as well it will be rare and if for eg its a charm it will only be magic and so on.

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quote:
Gaze into the Oblivion within yourself and you shall become your greatest fears.
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NefariusDX
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From: The Hadal Abyss of Eternal Oblivion
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posted 11 January 2002 00:01     Click Here to See the Profile for NefariusDX   Click Here to Email NefariusDX        Reply w/Quote   Visit NefariusDX's Homepage!
btw apocalypse in your last post you repeated what i said a few post ago lol uberdrop=questdrop and can generate as long as the bossdead flag in the .d2s files is set to 0

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quote:
Gaze into the Oblivion within yourself and you shall become your greatest fears.
The escence of leeching is to request before you try

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Apocalypse Demon
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posted 11 January 2002 00:16     Click Here to See the Profile for Apocalypse Demon   Click Here to Email Apocalypse Demon        Reply w/Quote   
Yes, I know all that but what I'm saying is that in 1.08 and later, mf DOES affect bosses in the same way it affects other monsters.

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NefariusDX
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posted 11 January 2002 00:19     Click Here to See the Profile for NefariusDX   Click Here to Email NefariusDX        Reply w/Quote   Visit NefariusDX's Homepage!
yes i agree in part now but it dosent effect all of their drop as i said bosses still give u a quest uberdrop and this part still CANT be effected by any thing only the additional items that generate seam to be effected except in 6+ppl games where the rest gets increased as well

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Gaze into the Oblivion within yourself and you shall become your greatest fears.
The escence of leeching is to request before you try

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Apocalypse Demon
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posted 11 January 2002 00:53     Click Here to See the Profile for Apocalypse Demon   Click Here to Email Apocalypse Demon        Reply w/Quote   
"yes i agree in part now but it dosent effect all of their drop as i said bosses still give u a quest uberdrop and this part still CANT be effected by any thing only the additional items that generate seam to be effected except in 6+ppl games where the rest gets increased as well"

There is no quest uberdrop from bosses anymore.

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NefariusDX
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posted 11 January 2002 00:57     Click Here to See the Profile for NefariusDX   Click Here to Email NefariusDX        Reply w/Quote   Visit NefariusDX's Homepage!
if there isnt then explain why they still drop a fat drop only only uniques/rares/sets first time u kill them this is not related to luck and all b.net gets it, the fact it dosent seam so is simple, most ppl get higher level friends into the games to kill the bosses in this case they finish the quest but the quest drop isnt generated as a quest drop (andy still drops gems etc) duriel has no more quest drop mephisto has and diablo has baal never had one

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quote:
Gaze into the Oblivion within yourself and you shall become your greatest fears.
The escence of leeching is to request before you try

[This message has been edited by NefariusDX (edited 11 January 2002).]

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Apocalypse Demon
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posted 11 January 2002 05:45     Click Here to See the Profile for Apocalypse Demon   Click Here to Email Apocalypse Demon        Reply w/Quote   
That's the thing, they don't drop alot of good items the first time you kill them. I have gotten all blues from act bosses from the first kill, I have also gotten good drops AFTER the first kill. It's probability, sometimes you get a good drop, sometimes you don't. You can do one run and maybe get 5 uniques or you can do 100 runs and get one unique, that doesn't mean that all of a sudden, blizzard changed your drops or whatever, it's just that you rolled unlucky.

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NefariusDX
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posted 11 January 2002 06:34     Click Here to See the Profile for NefariusDX   Click Here to Email NefariusDX        Reply w/Quote   Visit NefariusDX's Homepage!
the quest drop code is still there for some reason thought,since code is still there this needs more testing and alot more another fact that i mentioned b4 is that the game contains ALOT of unused code, with the right tweaking u even could re enable guild halls since the gfx and the code is there the game even reads from it when u log on to b.net it just has no function any more

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quote:
Gaze into the Oblivion within yourself and you shall become your greatest fears.
The escence of leeching is to request before you try

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Apocalypse Demon
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posted 11 January 2002 09:20     Click Here to See the Profile for Apocalypse Demon   Click Here to Email Apocalypse Demon        Reply w/Quote   
Can you please refer me to the location of this code because Jarulf hasn't mentioned it before. Any hex addresses for me to refer to?

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Fuzzbox
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posted 11 January 2002 09:45     Click Here to See the Profile for Fuzzbox   Click Here to Email Fuzzbox        Reply w/Quote   
the quest-only uberdrop is most certainly gone ON REALM. i don't know about single as it hasn't affected me yet.

otherwise there would be little point farming meph/baal hell for decent items if you couldn't get the drop.

i DO remember the uberdrop back in 1.04 when i started playing, which is why i usually did act bosses solo (had a slow comp+connection then too, couldn't see big drops before someone else picked them up)

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Apocalypse Demon
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posted 11 January 2002 14:23     Click Here to See the Profile for Apocalypse Demon   Click Here to Email Apocalypse Demon        Reply w/Quote   
The quest uber drop is gone from realm and singleplayer for sure since the drop system is completely different now. And Nefarius, explain how sometimes I get no rares, uniques or sets from the first kill of an Act boss especially Mephisto...while farming him with mf after that gets you lots of uniques and sets.

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NefariusDX
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posted 11 January 2002 20:40     Click Here to See the Profile for NefariusDX   Click Here to Email NefariusDX        Reply w/Quote   Visit NefariusDX's Homepage!
some one else is in the chaos sanc or durance 3 (baal, duriel have no uber drop) andy HAS but she drops gems first time u kill her (hehe proof) mephisto and big d still drop a uber drop when your alone in the game and not in a game opened by some one else (as well as the quest drop of the soul stone)

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quote:
Gaze into the Oblivion within yourself and you shall become your greatest fears.
The escence of leeching is to request before you try

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Apocalypse Demon
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posted 11 January 2002 21:29     Click Here to See the Profile for Apocalypse Demon   Click Here to Email Apocalypse Demon        Reply w/Quote   
"some one else is in the chaos sanc or durance 3 (baal, duriel have no uber drop) andy HAS but she drops gems first time u kill her (hehe proof) mephisto and big d still drop a uber drop when your alone in the game and not in a game opened by some one else (as well as the quest drop of the soul stone)"

Arghh. Where are you coming up with this garbage information? Andy does not have an uber drop but she does have an auto drop of 3 gems(2 chipped, one standard) that drops EVERY time you kill her regardless. It is not an uber drop but it's an auto drop. And the statement of mephisto and diablo dropping uber drops in one player game is faulty and garbage information...

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Axalon
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posted 11 January 2002 22:46     Click Here to See the Profile for Axalon   Click Here to Email Axalon        Reply w/Quote   
Oh no, here we go again *sigh*

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NefariusDX
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Posts: 1392
From: The Hadal Abyss of Eternal Oblivion
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posted 11 January 2002 23:55     Click Here to See the Profile for NefariusDX   Click Here to Email NefariusDX        Reply w/Quote   Visit NefariusDX's Homepage!
the drop of 3 gems IS a uberdrop, since its not located any where but the quest drops table itself

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quote:
Gaze into the Oblivion within yourself and you shall become your greatest fears.
The escence of leeching is to request before you try

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Apocalypse Demon
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From: Mississauga, Ontario
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posted 12 January 2002 00:19     Click Here to See the Profile for Apocalypse Demon   Click Here to Email Apocalypse Demon        Reply w/Quote   
The term uberdrop is referring to a really good drop that happens only the first time you kill that boss. In Andariel's case, she ALWAYS gives you two chips and a standard gem. That is not an uberdrop, that's an auto drop which is added on top of the drops that are in the treasureclassex.txt tables. Mephisto or other act bosses do not have such drops because it is possible to get absolutely nothing from Mephisto(if you are really unlucky and roll everything as a no drop).

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NefariusDX
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From: The Hadal Abyss of Eternal Oblivion
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posted 12 January 2002 02:41     Click Here to See the Profile for NefariusDX   Click Here to Email NefariusDX        Reply w/Quote   Visit NefariusDX's Homepage!
the act bosses have nodrop set to 15 LOL thats a chance of 1 to a quintillion that u dont get any thing, i know how to test it thought im gonna set no drop to 100 and see if they drop something, the drop andy gives IS in the same internal table as the uber drops and all of them are still there even if they are not used

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quote:
Gaze into the Oblivion within yourself and you shall become your greatest fears.
The escence of leeching is to request before you try

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